quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 Don't know if you can tell that or not but the lyrics make no sense..lol they just are within the tonality of what I am looking for on this track. Putting them all together like a puzzle and building around that is challenging and these may very well be placeholders for the temp moment. So yes that is the reason there is no defined structure...yet. It's just that beginning part that snaps a db. Might have to automate some eq on that intro.

Sorry, missed this bit. Yeah, I think the large majority of lyrics in EDM don't ever make any sense lol.

And yeah, that's understandable on the beginning stages of an arrangement.

Force of habit on the suggestions perhaps... like I said, whatever sorta feedback you're looking for, I'd be happy to try and give.

I think contextually, as musicians... the feedback tends to be more critical I guess... which sometimes ends up being counterproductive to a creative process.

And thanks for your feedback as well!

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Sounds like good progress so far on the Chicane track. As to the pad, referencing the original : it sounds like some breathy saws,some white noise, a resonant bell-pad and a dash of overall resonance. Then it got pushed with whatever effects to saturate/drive it. Could probably high-pass a sparkly bellpad and layer it in for extra shimmer. Was able to get relatively close with just presets, but yeah, it'd definitely take some effort/tinkering to hone it in to that exact sound. (Close good enough in most cases anyway...less you're doing it for the sake of challenge)

Thank you. I tried a bunch of times (also yesterday evening). Although I hear some resemblance it isn't what I'd like it to be. If you're willing I'd love a post about the settings you used. I tried mostly with Serum and Sylenth with things as saturation/distortion, overdriving supersaws, highpass and some reverb but it's hard so smoothen it out to make it that spacious, breathy and gentle.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Looks like one has survived the night. Though, my ears definitely didn't... Programming big saw-wave synths be like that I guess. Quick and dirty arrangement to get the core idea going...will hopefully be able to expand from there. Yay, for over the top drops.

Initially I thought the low end is a bit heavy but that evens out when the hats come in. The sounds mostly have a similar nature. I'd like to see some contrasting parts added to make the whole more dynamic/versatile. Apart from that not much to add at this point. Do share an update when you have one!

quote:

Originally posted by szm appreciate the FB as always st. took a listen on some speakers, it sounds quite bad. doh.

Keep on producing. Trust the process and give it time. Knowing the music you put out through labels in the past you got it in you 💪

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Any thoughts?

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^ sounds pretty incredible to me, especially when everything hits.

I have a question for anyone, im looking for some guidance in obtaining some more loudness in my master/mix. I've been experimenting quite a bit with compression, softclipping, limiting and eq'ing down the sub but Im still getting quite a bit of volume normalization / decrease in volume outside the daw if I upload to youtube. A/bing to tracks im missing quite a bit perceived volume, im looking for some direction if possible.

render with tried mastering as such, I wanna say its the bass causing most of the problem but im really not sure.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Any thoughts? DariusX. · WIP - NO NAME Cheers, Darek

Lush big chords in the beginning. Awesome. Cool vocals. Great arp later on. Fabulous piece. If I must mention one thing it would be that perhaps a kick with a bit less oomf would work better. But that is just nitpicking. It sounds really really good.

quote:

Originally posted by szm ^ sounds pretty incredible to me, especially when everything hits. I have a question for anyone, im looking for some guidance in obtaining some more loudness in my master/mix. I've been experimenting quite a bit with compression, softclipping, limiting and eq'ing down the sub but Im still getting quite a bit of volume normalization / decrease in volume outside the daw if I upload to youtube. A/bing to tracks im missing quite a bit perceived volume, im looking for some direction if possible. render with tried mastering as such, I wanna say its the bass causing most of the problem but im really not sure.

I wouldn't consider myself particularly good at loud mixes. What did help was getting the right tools (for me), which in this case mostly meant buying the Ozone Elements limiter. It really comes down to when/where you want to trigger what, which elements do you want to interact? How much control do you want/need (the more control, the closer to the original sound the dynamics most likely need to be controlled).

For instance, in some tracks I do:

code:

Drums -> compression  -\
Bass -> Volume shaper ---> Group compression -> Master compression

code:

Drums -\
Bass  ---> Group compression ---> Master compression

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Feb-07-2024 at 13:59

@MSZ: also https://youtu.be/ESNtKFhJfbE
Transients can do weird stuff too.

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by szm ^ sounds pretty incredible to me, especially when everything hits. I have a question for anyone, im looking for some guidance in obtaining some more loudness in my master/mix. I've been experimenting quite a bit with compression, softclipping, limiting and eq'ing down the sub but Im still getting quite a bit of volume normalization / decrease in volume outside the daw if I upload to youtube. A/bing to tracks im missing quite a bit perceived volume, im looking for some direction if possible. render with tried mastering as such, I wanna say its the bass causing most of the problem but im really not sure.

In addition to what storyteller mentioned...(Though, admittedly I'm not much of an expert on "loudness" either...and I know you guys are all pretty savvy producers so I don't mean this as condescending...I just don't know what you know...)

It's worth being aware, that streaming sites have a loudness normalization feature...which might be the direct cause of what you're hearing...

So it might be a little counter-intuitive in that, your mixes might be too loud.

So, another useful [and free!] tool worth considering, if you haven't got it already, is YOULEAN Loudness Meter 2 . It should give a little more direct clarification on the loudness normalization that's occuring to your mix after uploading.

If I plan on uploading a song to something like youtube, then I'll run it on my master channel after all processing that occurs, to get an idea of what the loudness algorithm will make of it.

There's many charts out there that show optimal LUFS curves for the different platforms.

So, if your mix ends up having an LUFS of -10, it's going to get pushed down to ~-14 on youtube so that it gets normalized with the rest. This might not necessarily be all that bad, unless it's throwing off the tonal balance of the mix...but anyone else who's used to streaming the audio from the site, probably won't be able to tell the difference.

I haven't really noticed the balance of my mixes getting thrown off personally. They mostly just come out a little quieter overall, and tend to be roughly as loud as anything else on there...

Reading through that article, you can also see that some platforms will not only normalize loudness, but reprocess into a lower bitrate...(Which was one of my gripes with soundcloud that I originally used to be able to hear, but didn't quite understand)

For youtube specifically, I tend to try and pick the most optimized file format, that receives the least amount of post-processing from youtube as well...and that has helped a ton in keeping my mixes closest to what they sound like in the DAW.

For youtube, using an original .wav file processed with PCM encoding at 44.1khz with 256 kbps bitrate has given me the cleanest transfers thus far. (.AVI Video encoding should allow for PCM audio encoding) I think .flac would be another viable option...

From there, it'd boil down to how you want that loudness perceived in your mix, I guess. I haven't played with it too much, as I feel that if someone wants something louder, they can use their volume knob...I don't mix specifically for loudness, though I love lots of bass, and probably end up using some of the loudness tricks to that end.

Perceived loudness curves and checking on as many of the audio systems I have available, has been very useful.

Other tools that I feel have helped me add some oomph to my mixes are : Saturation / Warmer for the low-end, parallel compression and EQ for things like pianos / claps / fickle lead synths, multi-band compression and maximizer for the master, as well as having a good limiter on the end.

Using room EQ wizard + a condenser mic to analyze my room, as well as a quality SPL meter to standardize the loudness from my mains at max volume, has also been quite beneficial to me. (I go with Bob Katz K-system, -20RMS pink noise gives 83dbC at my listening position, max volume) Mixing kick to -6db and using ears to balance the rest of the mix from there, has given me noticeably better results.

Similarly, I run a tune (once I'm done with it...) through the gambit...

Mains : Yamaha HS8 / HS50M (Great down to ~40hz)
Big System : Klipsch RF82-II + [Deftech SC8000 + Klipsch 600W 10"] subs (Used for checking 40hz and below, and low-end tightness)
Headphones : 200ohm Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro + O2 Amp (panning/verb/phasing issues)
Earbuds : Shure SE215 Aonic bluetooth (bass heavy, most people listen with earbuds)
In my truck (Phase issues and if it sounds good here I'm happy)
Phone speakers (Lets me check if bass is still present on thinner systems)

Last edited by theterran on Feb-07-2024 at 21:41

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Thank you. I tried a bunch of times (also yesterday evening). Although I hear some resemblance it isn't what I'd like it to be. If you're willing I'd love a post about the settings you used. I tried mostly with Serum and Sylenth with things as saturation/distortion, overdriving supersaws, highpass and some reverb but it's hard so smoothen it out to make it that spacious, breathy and gentle. Initially I thought the low end is a bit heavy but that evens out when the hats come in. The sounds mostly have a similar nature. I'd like to see some contrasting parts added to make the whole more dynamic/versatile. Apart from that not much to add at this point. Do share an update when you have one!

My apologies...Actually went for Sytrus on this one, as it sounds like FM synthesis being used (to me, at least). I cannot imagine sylenth1 getting that sound ever...or at least, I'm nowhere skilled enough to get that kinda sound out of it.

I've seen Serum as a popular choice, and have been meaning to get my hands on it.

Always up for criticism though and I could be completely off base here...You're absolutely free to give further direction.

This is pretty quick and dirty, but I think...If you play this sample directly on top of what you've got going on in your mix (using volume to help blend)...to me, it gets very close. Opened up for download as well, so you can play around with it if you'd like.

Last edited by theterran on Feb-07-2024 at 21:25

Interesting, thanks for the responses. I'd imagine multiband compression would be the same effect as group compression for most purposes.


Thanks for the plugin recommendation tt, I went down that -14 lufs rabbithole already but still the issue is relativity. I also heard youtube is applying dynamic compression as well, but still that relativity thing.

even though I set the ozone lufs target I did not actually check if its actually hitting it, so there is that.

I was recommended by someone to master outside of reason into ableton, because reason has some fuckery going on, but I can't confirm. but I do have some ideas, that will cost some money, so not sure when ill get around to it.

I appreciate the thorough responses, some food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by szm Interesting, thanks for the responses. I'd imagine multiband compression would be the same effect as group compression for most purposes. Thanks for the plugin recommendation tt, I went down that -14 lufs rabbithole already but still the issue is relativity. I also heard youtube is applying dynamic compression as well, but still that relativity thing. even though I set the ozone lufs target I did not actually check if its actually hitting it, so there is that. I was recommended by someone to master outside of reason into ableton, because reason has some fuckery going on, but I can't confirm. but I do have some ideas, that will cost some money, so not sure when ill get around to it. I appreciate the thorough responses, some food for thought.

Interesting...well, definitely interested in hearing what it ends up being if you get it sorted out.

Though, I have played around with the ozone mastering suite...some of it's "AI" / automated features seem pretty blegh to me. I tend to adjust that sorta thing by hand when possible.

Did take the time to test this before initially replying though, and figured maybe the results would be of, some interest...Used the latest wip since it already demonstrated part of the issue.

I use FL studio 21 and Wondershare Filmora.

Loudness was adjusted down as close to -14 as my patience would allow for, by remixing with kick set to -8db rms, then relaxing the multiband compressor, maximizer and limiter. I touched nothing else.

(loudest part is at 1:07...)

Raw Original [-7.5LUFS] - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YB...iew?usp=sharing

Youtube upload Original [-7.5LUFS] - https://youtu.be/a_se9F5pC1o

Raw Adjusted [~ -14LUFS] - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h8...?usp=drive_link

Youtube upload Adjusted [-14 LUFS] - https://youtu.be/3amosslEgCQ

To me, raw original absolutely loud as hell on fresh ears. The youtube upload of it definitely knocked down a noticeable amount. The other two seem practically identical to both my ears and SPL meter.

Last edited by theterran on Feb-08-2024 at 04:53

quote:

Originally posted by theterran My apologies...Actually went for Sytrus on this one, as it sounds like FM synthesis being used (to me, at least). I cannot imagine sylenth1 getting that sound ever...or at least, I'm nowhere skilled enough to get that kinda sound out of it. I've seen Serum as a popular choice, and have been meaning to get my hands on it. Always up for criticism though and I could be completely off base here...You're absolutely free to give further direction. This is pretty quick and dirty, but I think...If you play this sample directly on top of what you've got going on in your mix (using volume to help blend)...to me, it gets very close. Opened up for download as well, so you can play around with it if you'd like. TheTA · Top Layer Pretty raw sample as well, so maybe it'd fit a little tighter with EQ/filtering and the like.

No worries! Thank you kindly for looking into this. I'm mostly interested in reproducing the sound myself. Serum has some FM synthesis options. I'll try and head into that direction for myself. I don't have any VST's purely focussed on FM synthesis at this point.

Looking at your SC profile, cool FF7 remakes. Brings back memories

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Feb-08-2024 at 12:26